Video Transcript:
Announcement: [00:00:00] Welcome to Healing With Human Connection, where we have encouraging conversations about tough topics such as substance abuse, drug addiction, and mental health issues for those in the Northwest Indiana area. Our hope is to share information that will guide you to resources that can help you change your life so that you can live the life you were meant to live.
Announcement: Check out our website, www.healingwithconnection.com to find a full transcript of today's conversation along with the list of any resources or links mentioned in this episode. Enjoy the show.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Hello everyone, welcome. Welcome to Healing With Human Connections. I'm Jeanne Ann Cannon. I'm a therapist and life coach, uh, dealing mostly with relationships, couples counseling, life transitions, and I have here, we have Ms.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Lisa Scheller, my podcast partner who is, specializes in life and health coach and, [00:01:00] uh, individual and family coaching. She and her husband have written an excellent book called From Fear to Faith that has to do with alcoholism and the family component and the problems and how to recover and that it's doable.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: It's a wonderful book, Lisa.
Lisa Scheller: Thanks Jeanne Ann. Yeah. And you know, and the um, reason we did the book is because we wanted to let people know we're your neighbors next door. You know? Um, addiction doesn't know any social economic status and it can happen to anybody. And, um, more that, um, we're coming out of the pandemic, we're realizing that this is a real issue and it's not gonna go away.
Lisa Scheller: So what can we do to help lift the stigma and get people the resources and help that they need? And so it is our honor to share our story and if it can just help one family, then we've done what we we're, um, meant to do.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Meant to do.
Lisa Scheller: Yep.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: It's a wonderful book and I couldn't put it down and it is so helpful.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So we are thrilled also to have Dr. Hegazy with us. Thank you, Dr. Hegazy, for being here. [00:02:00] So Dr. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what you do now?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me today. Um, I'm a medical graduate from, um, medical school, from Egypt, uh, Cairo, Egypt.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Moved to the United States in 2004..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, to pursue my career. Um, I choose to, uh, work with the, uh, getting like my specialty in psychiatry and Addiction Psychiatry. Uh, graduated from, uh, New York Medical College for, uh, psychiatry specialty and, uh, Mount Sinai School of Medicine for addiction.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, subspecialty and, uh, kind of like, um, uh, getting certified in other psychiatry, uh, and also in addiction, psychiatry and Addiction Medicine board certified. So, um, I move to, um, Midwest in 2013 to kind of like, uh, having that version, uh, of being like in the lifestyle of Midwest, which, uh, moved from New York City, which is, [00:03:00] was really like a very interesting shift.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Um, and, uh, I, I've been, uh, joining North Shore now for, uh, about three years.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, I was very lucky to be among the team that, uh, established the mental health services at North Shore. Uh, uh, we work together to establish like, uh, the different services, including psychiatric service, which will be focused more on the, um, uh, establish the diagnosis.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, providing the medication management for psychiatric analysis.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, we also have the, uh, psychological health services with the two psychologists on board with us, including Dr. Schreck and, uh, uh, Dr. Merick. We, uh, also have, uh, uh, six counselors, which provide the mental health counseling..
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: ..To, uh, our population at North Shore.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And on top of that we have the, our, uh, specialized program for, uh, substance use counseling [00:04:00] and cocaine disorder, uh, which we call it frontline program.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And providing that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So that's kind of like, work together as a team to establish the different services at North Shore. I was very fortunate to be among the team working on that for, in the past three years.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And established that service. So at this point now, I'm very like, proud of what we accomplished and we, what we are working on, even to uh, kind of like grow this team and reach out to more community.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That would be our, our goal and um, like working with the mission of North Shore and like to reach out to everyone.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Try to provide the service, the best service.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: To everyone regardless.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That would be our, our focus.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Thank you.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Thank you, Dr. Hegazy. And maybe for those listening, of course, we had Dr. Schreck with us last time who talked about her work. Maybe if you can explain the role of [00:05:00] psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, lowly life licensed clinical social workers like myself, kind of their general role with someone who's interested in getting help and how, what's that about?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, Absolutely. So, um, again, like I, I was fortunate to work with North Shore really focusing on that field and providing this like, different array of services, uh, which is, is really like, uh, kind of like, uh, very, very surprising me with how much they are investing in behavioral health and the mental health and they try to provide that to the community.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So basically the psychiatrist and the psychiatric provider that they are medical uh, provider or medical graduate, they will provide the, uh, they are specialized in mental health.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And they provide the examination to establish the diagnosis.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And also would provide the medication management involved with, in the treatment plan.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: In general, they can oversee the treatment plan and [00:06:00] work as part of the team that provide the treatment for patients who suffers from uh, mental illness and substance use disorder. As we all know, it's not easy to handle such illnesses.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And it's kind of like very challenging. So we need that team, we need that integrated model.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And not even just the behavioral services, but also the other medical, medical, uh, specialties like, uh, primary care, family medicine.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Sure.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, other medical specialists, which is, is very interesting that what we have at NorthShore. We kind of like working on this integrated model to provide all together under the same rule.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So the psychologist, uh, would be more focusing on like, uh, uh, establish the diagnosis through like more objective uh, tools to achieve to do the psychological testing.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And based on that, they can come with the data that they analyze and they would provide that to also the psychiatrist like me.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That will have this information about the [00:07:00] patient, which is very like, definitely in some cases, very challenging to, uh, it kind of like confirm or establish the diagnosis.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And do we need that sort of like, uh, uh, psychological testing to make sure..
Lisa Scheller: Like a baseline to tell.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah. To make sure where we are that like exactly what we are addressing.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And to make sure we are on the right track with the treatment.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Sometimes it would be also with the challenging cases when we kind of like challenge the diagnosis and we want to confirm if we are really in the right path or not of the treatment. So we, we use that tool for the psychological service. The, excuse me, the other, uh, part of the therapy,
Dr. Belal Hegazy: of course, like we have the counselor, behavioral health consultant, I'm not sure would, who provide the therapy to individual coming to need that psychotherapy with the different modalities of psychotherapy, but also the, uh, the, the working as a liaison person.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Between the, uh, mental [00:08:00] health
Dr. Belal Hegazy: department and the other, uh, medical specialty.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So that's when it comes like to the point that the patient comes to primary provider or family medicine and they need the mental health services.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And instead of waiting until they would see the psychiatrist, which could be the waiting time would be a few months or something like that.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: We can work through that with uh, assisting the patient, identifying their needs, and they could provide some consultation service to the primary provider so they can ensure the treatment.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And not to be just waiting, not receiving any kind of treatment.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So I love what you're saying because it really is a multifaceted issue for every client and patient.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: It's so complicated. You have the physical, the emotional. You know, spiritual, life purpose.
Lisa Scheller: Mental.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. So what you're saying is that team, everything from the psychiatrist to the psychologist, to the therapist, and to the medical side of things, works together and coordinates. That is such a wonderful thing.
Lisa Scheller: It's [00:09:00] a holistic.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: Approach.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That what get me like actually to the field of the mind and body souls. That's what really get me there.
Lisa Scheller: And I, I heard that once, you know, we fixed, we tried to fix the mind and then we try to fix the, you know, physical, but then there's that soul like, we gotta bring all three together.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: But, and what is so nice now is when you go to a general practitioner, oftentimes now, or even a specialist in the medical field, physical medical field, they will ask you about your psychological background, which in the years ago, they didn't do that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah, so we've come a long way, and what you've developed there at North Shore is really wonderful.
Lisa Scheller: And I like it that it's right there at NorthShore. You don't have to go to North Shore and then you have to go here, and then you have to go there and you're just meeting the needs of that patient when they come there.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that, that's basically our philosophy there.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: The integrated model of care.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And would be patient centered. Patient centered care, which we provide.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. And can you talk a little bit, and I know it's a big topic, but [00:10:00] medication that someone listening might be like, I want medication, or I really don't want to do this with medication. Can you maybe help them with their concerns about that?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, absolutely. So, Thank you for bringing that up, because it's really very challenging sometimes with the patients. Like, yeah, if, if that would be something like, I would like to do if really like they don't feel comfortable to do, just to think about it like we are, like in general, like our nature as human being,
Dr. Belal Hegazy: we don't like medication. Who likes to take medicine.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: We kind of like that. Even sometimes, even with the professional, they, they struggle if they have their own medical illnesses, they struggle to take medication.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And like to remember to take it. This understood, and we try to work with the patient to understand what their barriers from the medication, what their fear, what's their concerns, and working on that.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, but some mental illnesses would need to have medication.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That's based on the proof of the [00:11:00] evidence, proof of the experience, and also the literature. All the data, evidence based would provide us with like some mental illnesses, would need to have medication and actually, Uh, delay that intervention with the medication would make the outcome worse.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Lisa Scheller: Then that's when people start self-medicating.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That would be one of the things. And sometimes also the disease develop resistance to treatment over time. And we found like over years, like the disease is not responding to medical intervention.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: For all of a sudden no specific reason, right?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And that they don't have to be afraid because if that happens, you can tweak it or change type of medications or the amount.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah, and that's what we usually work with our clients and our patients on, just like we have here. This is the service that we provide. That's why we are available here. To work to follow on that, if you have any problem, if you're not seeing [00:12:00] any changes, negative or positive, we have to update us about that. We keep a follow up appointment with them and if we need to adjust the doses or adjust the medication.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And there's different ways now for intervention.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: With like, many medications available for addressing the mood destabilization, the depression and anxiety, the issues with like the irritability, even with the uh, addiction field will be medication that would facilitate or assess the recovery.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: We kind of like medication assisted treatment.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: We have that intervention.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Which would help and increase the probability to achieve and establish maintaining the recovery.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. So as complicated just like a medical problem..
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Uh, a patient, client needs to be a squeaky wheel and say that I'm feeling a little bit too out of it, or I'm afraid I'm gonna get addicted.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: You know, Dr. Hegazy, what should I do about this? So you'll answer their questions and work with them and try to get them on the right path. And [00:13:00] if changing a medication is important, that's available. So they shouldn't fear that.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah. And, and like we, we, we want to just like, we want to achieve this stability. That's would be like our goal.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Like, uh, we work with the patient if this is kind of like what we have as a knowledge, what we have as experience, as evidence.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Would provide this kind of like intervention, would, uh, would increase the probability to achieve a stability.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that would be our whole life. To have a stable life, to have more productive life.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That will be the goal.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So we, we'd work with them on that. And sometimes if the patient actually would be kind of like very scared or, uh, afraid to do this intervention and we, we let them like just to give them some time. I usually ask them just to maintain follow up, maintain coming even like in a space time for follow up.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: But I keep them connected.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And uh, most of the time they come back and say like, I didn't want to try some medication. [00:14:00] I want to get some help with that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that doesn't undermine the other like therapeutic intervention.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Definitely because they are kind of all working together.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that will increase the chance to achieve the stability.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Are there any other big reasons why, you know, maybe fear of medication, but any other reasons or blocks that you might want to address that you would say to people it's okay to reach out and get help. Don't be afraid of... why do people not?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: It, I see it's often like having like, uh, sharing experience or getting like their experience from other like people, other family member or a friend, and they kind of like, they, they kind of take it and they apply this experience on themselves.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that's what we try to work with the patients on, like everyone is ... is a unique experience.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So we cannot take that and apply it if your family member, uh, took this medicine and they have negative or [00:15:00] positive experience, we couldn't kind of extrapolate that and put it on your experience, so we have to make sure we follow with you. Sometimes the genetic component play rules there, but definitely we want to make sure we, we work with them on their unique experience.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Wow. That is just beautiful.
Lisa Scheller: And I was just gonna say, you know, um, Hans with addiction and they finally got him on some medication, um, and I think that's being treated for like anxiety. And he's been taking this pill every day for eight years.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: And it's really just like you said, it equal, you know, his behavior, his, um, mind just like equalized it, right?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: And so..
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Kind of like gave him this stability.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah. Gave him that stability. And so his doctor has said, well, let anybody know if you go off of that.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: Because he's been taking it, just this pill every single day for that. And it's really, really helped him too.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that's the part also of the mental illness.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Because it's not a, like in general mental illness, it's not like that pure [00:16:00] science, other medical specialty.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So we kind of like, it's not like any other specialty, like gastroenterologist or cardiologist where he can scope the person.
Lisa Scheller: Exactly.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah, and that's it.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: The diagnosis, get a piece of the tissue.
Lisa Scheller: Then you know what you're getting.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And you know what we get and we have that.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: But it's actually have that combination of science and art.
Lisa Scheller: That's right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And the art of working with a patient, intervening with the patient.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Gosh, that's a beautiful way to put it.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah. That is a beautiful way.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: The art of working with a patient.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And overall the resistance, because we see a lot of this resistance, but eventually having the medication as part of the treatment.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That would achieve the stability.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And the, that medical model is actually like any other chronic illness.
Lisa Scheller: Exactly.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So if I am hypertensive and I stop taking my blood pressure medication, my blood pressure will rise up.
Lisa Scheller: Yes, exactly.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: If I stop taking my diabetes medicine, my blood sugar would fluctuate, causing problems. So that would apply also.
Lisa Scheller: That's a great analogy for people to hear about [00:17:00] that because you would treat those other things and that's why, how you should treat your mental illness.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. Well, and it is an art, and as you say, Dr. Hegazy, everyone is unique, so I just thank you so much.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Oh my goodness.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Oh, thank you.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: We can talk all day. Um, it is just fascinating, but the fact that, as Lisa said, you have this holistic view and that you give the client a patient space to identify their unique needs so that you can help them appropriately is just a wonderful thing.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Is there anything else you'd like to mention today?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Uh, I, I think it works to mention, especially with like my subspecialty in addiction and working in addiction field for over like 20 years.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Working with the population.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: It's really like very important to understand that, especially like the dynamic with the having a, like person suffering from addiction in the family and how to work on that.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: How the family would intervene with that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And how that would affect the relationship with the family. [00:18:00] Uh, I see a lot of like the, the, uh, the families like me to understand that that person would, they would in, in whose suffering from the addiction in, in need for validation. Validation of their trial to get better, validation of their trial
Dr. Belal Hegazy: to achieve the stability. But meanwhile they also need like to balance that and to get that with what we call it, verification.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Verification that the person like is in the right track, on the right path of treatment, getting like the right help.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And the following what they, they need to do to achieve that stability.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So that's kind of dynamic where the family like balance between the validation and the verification and not to over validate and forget about that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So that's the coexist of like a healthy boundaries.
Lisa Scheller: Yes, yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: In the relationship.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And if they over verify and, and forget to validate the person that would kind of like make the person feeling down and losing the trust [00:19:00] in themselves and the process.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that wouldn't help them to achieve the goals.
Lisa Scheller: Exactly.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Um, for the, the people who's suffering from the, the, uh, the addiction diseases, asking for help. Never give up.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: That's very important.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: It's, it's not anything different than any other chronic illnesses.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Evidence prove that.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: So, uh, like if you just focus on what you need to do, focus on here and now, focus on today.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: And that would achieve like your long term plan.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yes.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: I never met with a person in, in my career over 20 years who achieved the long-term sobriety and he told me, I decided to be sober for 20 years, 20 years ago.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: They always work on one day.
Lisa Scheller: One day at a time. That's right. And that's for the family too.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Move from there.
Lisa Scheller: But I think it's overall. We can only do one day at a time. Right?
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Absolutely.
Lisa Scheller: And so we cannot worry about what's gonna happen a week from now or what have you, so.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Lisa Scheller: But you're absolutely right. [00:20:00] And I, you know, I think that's what our family too is, when it came to realize that I needed to help Hans and support him because that was a disease, and getting him the help that he needed to become the whole person that he could be.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Well, thank you Dr. Hegazy.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Thank you, very much.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And, as you said, you know, trust and Lisa trust is such a big deal and with the family members and with the provider, so get your needs met. It's out there to be had. You have wonderful people like Dr. Hegazy and Lisa and her family have written a book that can help us, um, understand. And I love what you say, that some people go and get help and it didn't work.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Don't stop. Keep looking.
Lisa Scheller: Keep going.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Keep going.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So with that, we would say again, the core is to be kind to yourself. And what does that mean in addictions or mental health struggles, emotional struggles? Is it's okay to get help.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So we wish the best for you and have a great week. Thank you.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Dr. Belal Hegazy: Thank you.
Lisa Scheller: Thank you.[00:21:00]
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