Video Transcript:
Announcement: [00:00:00] Welcome to Healing With Human Connection, where we have encouraging conversations about tough topics such as substance abuse, drug addiction, and mental health issues for those in the Northwest Indiana area. Our hope is to share information that will guide you to resources that can help you change your life so that you can live the life you were meant to live.
Announcement: Check out our website, www.healingwithconnection.com to find a full transcript of today's conversation along with the list of any resources or links mentioned in this episode. Enjoy the show.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Hello everyone. Welcome. Welcome to Healing With Human Connection. I'm Jeanne Ann Cannon. I'm a therapist, uh, social worker and life coach, and I do in-person therapy and coaching and online.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And we have Ms. Lisa Scheller. Miss Lisa.
Lisa Scheller: Yay.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: My partner in Crime and Partner. Uh, Lisa is a life and health [00:01:00] coach, and she specializes in individual and family coaching. She and her husband have written a book. Yay, Lisa.
Lisa Scheller: Yes, From Fear To Faith. Yes. A Family's Journey with Addiction, Recovery and Grace. So, um, you know, it's helping show the story of the addiction.
Lisa Scheller: We know that's not gonna go away. Um, and what can we do to step, um, fill the gaps for people, step in the gaps, and, um, So if anybody's interested, just can reach out, um, we'll have the information on the, um, podcast.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: Um, but, you know..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And your website, Lisa?
Lisa Scheller: Yeah. On the website. Yeah. Heart and Health Coaching, um, and Facebook.
Lisa Scheller: But yeah, so our, you know, overall goal as our family is to share our stories so that other people know they do not walk this alone.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Well and having alcoholism in our family and the whole reason I got into this deal was because of alcoholism. And the book is like, I could not put it down. It is so good. More importantly is we have Sam with us, Sam Burgett.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Am I saying that right?
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Burgett and Brianna is [00:02:00] an intern with the Valpo Police Department. So excited to have them for so many reasons. Um, they work with the Valpo Police Department, and Sam will also talk about a little bit about a non-for-profit organization that she's involved with. But in today's world, and of course we won't be showing this taping, uh, until a week later. But of course, just last night, uh, what happened unfortunately, uh, we'll be keeping our prayers and thoughts with the people at Michigan State, but our world can be a little crazy. And not only, um, do our communities need help and people in our communities who are troubled, but also police departments and those in the helping field who need to help themselves on how to deal with people who are doing, uh, not so good things in our world. So the fact that Sam works for, uh, and Brianna is interning at, um, the Valpo Police Department doing what they do [00:03:00] is so enlightening to me because, and Lisa and I..
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm, absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Because, um, we need more, uh, when you talk about these mass shooting, And horrific events is that people need help in our community.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So, um, anyway, without further ado, Sam, uh, and Brianna, maybe First Sam, you can tell us a little bit about yourself and how did you even get into this? Tell me, you're a social worker, right?
Sam Burgett: Yes, yes, yes. Um, so I have my MSW from IUPUI. I'm a licensed social worker. I'm in process of getting my clinical license.
Sam Burgett: Um, so I never anticipated working with law enforcement. I graduated with my undergrad degree. Um, while I was in school for my bsw, I had started a nonprofit, the Community Change Center, based upon the need I was seeing in the justice system, both working with kids and adults. Um, so I had that going. I had no... very little intention of going to grad school.
Sam Burgett: I thought, I'm doing what I want to be doing. Here [00:04:00] I am. Um, COVID hit, shut down the, the programs that the nonprofit had been operating, and I thought, if I'm gonna get a master's, I should probably do it now. So..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Good for you.
Sam Burgett: I got my msw. Um, I was itching to come back to the area and I'm, I moved to Valpo in 2016 to go to VU.
Sam Burgett: Um, so in 2020 I moved to Indianapolis to get my master's. Um, got that, was ready to come back. Um, I worked in the prosecutor's office in Porter County for a brief time, um, which if for anybody that knows what prosecutors do, you know why that's really ironic. I've been doing re-entry for a long time.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Sam Burgett: Um, but I saw the value in, you know, building relationships with and, and understanding that that part of the system that I wasn't very familiar with.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And just to clarify a little bit, Sam, when you talk about reentry, for those listening, reentry means..?
Sam Burgett: So someone's return to the community after incarceration.
Sam Burgett: When I was in school, what led me to start that non-profit is I was actually, I was running a program for teens. Um, I had a group of teens who would disappear for a [00:05:00] few weeks, come back, and they were just acting totally different. So my, I say my calling is social work. Um, so when I see an issue, I can't not do something to address it.
Sam Burgett: And so I started a mentoring program in our detention center in the area. Uh, totally fell in love with the population. Started working there as an officer. Saw more flaws in the justice system. Uh, did a lot of research on other juvenile reentry programs and the facility actually let me start and run that.
Sam Burgett: So I was working with the kids while they were incarcerated. Then as they came back to the community, shortly after that, I had the opportunity to launch something similar in Westville prison. So while I was in undergrad, I was running those, I knew I needed more resources to support them. So I started the nonprofit, graduated, got my master's, came back.
Sam Burgett: When George Floyd was killed, a lot of social workers, including myself, were like, clearly something needs to change. You know, we've been knowing, we've been knowing there's a lot of flaws. Um, but that was kind of what, what got me, uh, interested and to even know that police social work existed somewhere.
Sam Burgett: Um, so [00:06:00] I, when I was in grad school, I was studying the field. Um, there's very little published on it, but I could, you know, find a couple articles of a couple departments that were doing that work. So when I came back I was working in the prosecutor's office and I heard that Valpo PD might be looking to hire a social worker.
Sam Burgett: And so I kind of positioned myself, um, to be found. Um, and so I was hired there in September of 2021. Um, so I'm the first, the first police social worker in Porter County. Um, currently the only work... you know, of course working to expand the program. Um, but it's been great.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Oh my gosh. Talk about..
Lisa Scheller: It is just amazing.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Seeing a, a flaw in the system and doing something about it.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Cheers to you Sam. That is just great. And, you know, there are so many wonderful police officers, but in any field, uh, there's reasons why we do unhealthy behavior.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: In the Floyd situation.
Sam Burgett: Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah. Big issue.
Sam Burgett: Yes.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Complicated.
Sam Burgett: Yes. And, and officers don't go to school to do social work [00:07:00] either, of course, right?
Jeanne Ann Cannon: No.
Sam Burgett: They're kind of social workers out in the field and, and don't really, they're not trained to do that. Um, but they, a lot of them do try to do that. And so the police chief.. Uh, former police chief of Valpo, um, saw that need and, um, for a couple years he was adamant about bringing a social worker on.
Sam Burgett: And when HealthLink came along with the funding, he jumped on it.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: What is his name, just to say?
Sam Burgett: So Jeff Balon, um, is, is the, the new sheriff for Porter County, but he was the police chief that hired me at Valpo.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Oh my gosh.
Lisa Scheller: And you know, I've heard, you know, and of course I attended that, um, back in September over at the, um, Porter County Fairgrounds when they had that substance abuse and mental health day and, and all those people that came together that says, you know, there is real problem here, but what are we gonna do to be a part of the solution?
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: And not just, you know, incarcerate people. But there's gotta be some kind of a path that they can go down. So the work that they're doing is just amazing.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. We also recently interviewed Andy Hynek with [00:08:00] LaPorte, uh, city of LaPorte. Is it sheriff?
Lisa Scheller: Mhmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Of the police.
Lisa Scheller: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And he's very in tune.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So we need to hook him up with you too.
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah. So, Brianna, tell us a little bit about you. You're an intern with..
Brianna Wallace: Yeah. Yes. So I'm, uh, from Valparaiso University. I'm a senior social work major. I have a psych minor. Um, and I'm in, I've been interning with Sam at the police department and half at her nonprofit.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Brianna Wallace: Um, for, since August of last year. So I'll be here until May. Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: What, what do you like about it?
Brianna Wallace: I really like the connect, like community connections that we receive and just like seeing the impacts of both her nonprofit and the position at the police department. Cuz I've seen a lot of like, Positive impacts, progress that I've seen.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: That's wonderful.
Lisa Scheller: That's awesome.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Thank you. Thank you. And we wish you all the best Brianna. And hopefully you'll end up working, huh? Um, but again, Sam, to clarify, so you are not only helping the people, [00:09:00] tell us who you serve from the Valpo Police Department.
Sam Burgett: Yeah, so my main focus is on the community. Um, but I do that internal component with the officers as well.
Sam Burgett: So internally, um, I design trainings, um, mental health bias, things like that for the department. I facilitate those. Um, but then I also, the Valpo police was very progressive in building out their officer wellness program prior to my hire. So they had already brought on an internal mental health consultant to be available 24 7 to the officers.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Mm-hmm.
Sam Burgett: Um, before I was even hired. And so they've had him. Um, they did that to focus on their mental health. They started incentivizing the physical health piece. Um, so I've been able to kind of help them expand that program. Um, we know that stigma surrounding mental health is real anywhere.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Sam Burgett: But particularly in law enforcement when they're the ones out in the community being that protector and, you know, server of the community.
Sam Burgett: And so, um, it's been, I, I spent the past year and some change just talking about mental health and you know, that [00:10:00] it's okay to ask for help and so..
Lisa Scheller: And that's just so important now because especially coming off of Covid and we know that it's escalated, so people need to know there is an out.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: That they do not need to carry this with them.
Lisa Scheller: And if they do decide that they do need help of some sort, it's just like if you had... I don't know, sinus infection. You'd go get help for it.
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: I mean, if there's some kind of mental illness, there are people out there to help and more than ever now, right?
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: You know, so..
Sam Burgett: Yeah. So there's that internal piece, but my main focus, most of my time is spent out in the community.
Sam Burgett: So I receive referrals from all over the place for all types of reasons. So, um, I actually review our police reports every morning, and then I will reach out to a person if I think there's a resource they could benefit from. Especially, um, if there's, you know, a victim of crime or, um, mental health. If we, if we do a mental health commitment on someone, then I reach out to them a few days later to make sure they were connected with services, things like that.
Sam Burgett: So I, uh, I reach out to people when I see a need, but also our officers send me [00:11:00] referrals when they think that someone is, is needing services. Um, the community members reach out to me and say, you know, my brother is having this kind of crisis. Can you help? Um, other agencies will call and we brainstorm resources and collaboration a lot.
Sam Burgett: And the longer I'm here, the more I get self-referrals. So people like, kind of..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Because they trust you.
Sam Burgett: Right. They hit their rock bottom and show up, you know, in tears with all these things going on at the police department and just say, I need help.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So if anyone is listening, I guess, twofold, major groups are police officers or maybe even police officers' families, um, that are struggling with some aspect.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: I mean, I cannot even imagine being a police officer. So the aspect of their work is very heavy and it is confidential. So sometimes sharing is difficult. And, uh, the other thing is if you're a parent or if you're a person out there and your child is maybe been caught by police multiple times and you're struggling and they won't get help and you want 'em to get help and you don't know how to [00:12:00] get help.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Sam would be a great, and Brianna, would be a great resource for you to call, um, because there, as Lisa said, there are so many ways to get help out there. Can you talk for a minute about the stigma? Thought of stigma? I mean, I just know people, uh, you know, of my era. Mid, mid forties, whatever. Your young era. Why is it that people don't ask for help?
Sam Burgett: Yeah. Well, a lot of it I think is that stigma. Um, people are embarrassed or, you know, we've never really treated mental health as we do physical health. Um, so as Lisa and I were talking about, if you break an arm, you go to the doctor, there's no stigma there, right? But..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Sam Burgett: If you are having suicidal thoughts or, you know, for, it's just, it's been this way for so long that it's really hard for people to reach out.
Sam Burgett: And it's also more... I don't wanna say more complicated than navigating the, the, you know, physical health system. But it is complicated and there's a lot of, uh, you know, your [00:13:00] insurance really matters and there's a lot of, you know, long wait lists and things like that. So once you have even gotten to the point where you can say, yes, I'm experiencing this and say, yes, I'm ready for help, then it's a matter of actually getting connected.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. Wow, Sam, that is true, I mean, I know, and I'm sure Lisa knows when we have clients, And say they need substance abuse treatment and they need to be in a center for whatever reason. You have to find insurance and how much does it cost? And, oh, sorry. They won't take that insurance. So, okay, let's look at this.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And then the stigma, I think. They're good therapists and not good therapists, good treatment centers, and that's so good treatment centers. That's very scary. So by calling someone like Sam and Brianna, uh, you can get some inside scoop.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And Lisa.
Lisa Scheller: Absolutely.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Myself. Um, inside Scoop on what is the reputation and someone like Sam, obviously Sam, you're proving yourself to your community, not only inside the Valpo Police Department, but in the community and those who provide resources that they trust you and you're the real deal.
Sam Burgett: Mm. [00:14:00]
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So bravo to you.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: But that stigma of, um, I, again, um, for anyone having emotional issues, it's embarrassing as you said.
Lisa Scheller: It's the shame.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And scary.
Lisa Scheller: Shame, yeah. The shame and the guilt that go along with it. Or, you know, coming to realize, you know, getting out the denial part of it.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Lisa Scheller: And knowing that you need to get help cuz you can get them the help, but if they're not wanting to get the help, so they gotta really just, you know, Come from within to get that help, so..
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Or not knowing that they need the help maybe would be part of it too. Like, for instance, how does, and I, again, not, I, I guess I'm just, this Michigan State shooting that just occurred, I, they interviewed some students who have been in the situation and got out of it.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: I'm thinking emotionally those people need big help, let alone the poor families who have now lost a child.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So, Um, instead of thinking, I'll deal with this and I'll [00:15:00] be okay. What would you say to them, Sam?
Sam Burgett: I always say everybody needs therapy. We all do. It doesn't matter who we are. Yeah, you need somebody.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And why would you say that? Let's just, so people hear.
Sam Burgett: We all need support. We all need to feel heard. We all need somebody to listen to us. So..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And what's..
Lisa Scheller: Unconditionally, somebody non-judgmental.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: You know.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Maybe talk about that a minute if you would, Lisa, that that, why is it so nice if you would, and that may sound very scary to a listener.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Why is it so nice to go to someone that doesn't know you?
Lisa Scheller: Go ahead.
Sam Burgett: Yeah, I mean, I think it takes the pressure off. Um, you know, I, I've, I've been to physical health appointments and, you know, light conversation. What do you do? When I say, and they say, I've heard about you. That's amazing. And then they want, you know, and then I'm like, wow, now you know, you're gonna remember this and connect whatever I have going on.
Sam Burgett: And so it's just nice to definitely to go to somebody that doesn't know you, doesn't know your family, and one you, you kind of know, well, they're, they don't even know [00:16:00] my, who I'm connected to. So who are they gonna tell?
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Sam Burgett: Um, but also you just, I think it decreases that fear of shame.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah. And I think, who are they going to tell what most people don't understand or people like yourself, Lisa, being a, you know, our ethical code is that we don't tell.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: My husband doesn't see who I have as clients. I mean, there's not, and only time will prove that I keep that code.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: But you've been doing this for, you know, year two. You know, obviously people trust you.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So it is a trust thing.
Lisa Scheller: It's very much of a trust thing. And I also believe it's somebody that knows somebody that feels comfortable to refer them because you know, you were that person for them.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. Is there anything else, Brianna? Anything thoughts for someone listening..
Lisa Scheller: That's important?
Jeanne Ann Cannon: They might wanna call or anything you've learned?
Sam Burgett: Yeah, I mean, I can say that people, people always wanna know why, when or why would I call? And I say, you know, it's really hard to answer that because people call for [00:17:00] everything, you know, for aging, for kids, for mental health, for housing, for financial assistance, for anything and everything.
Sam Burgett: Um, so..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So you have nothing to lose. Right?
Sam Burgett: Right, right.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Just call.
Sam Burgett: Right.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: If you can't help them, you know someone who can.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And it's a start.
Lisa Scheller: It's part of the community that has all these resources.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: And, you know, that's one thing that, um, I know Sam and she has a group that gets together once a month, um, at the police department.
Lisa Scheller: Last Friday.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: Every month, nine o'clock. And I had the opportunity to attend that meeting, um, just in January. And it's just amazing the people that came to the table. I don't know that day there must have been like 40 different people from all different careers. I mean, there was pastors there and then there was Franciscan Health and you know, just different people who took the time to come there cause they wanna be a part of the solution and the bigger picture and how, how can my organization help?
Lisa Scheller: You know, now you have that big resource bank.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Scheller: You know, and there's just so many things out there that people just don't know.
Sam Burgett: Right.
Lisa Scheller: I mean, and it's all about educating [00:18:00] them. I mean, I learned a lot that day.
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: Just because I didn't know.
Sam Burgett: Yeah.
Lisa Scheller: I was like, wow, this is great. You should know this.
Lisa Scheller: You know.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And you're in the field.
Lisa Scheller: And the more, the more I know, the more I can use that to..
Sam Burgett: Right.
Lisa Scheller: Connect people.
Sam Burgett: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that brings me, I mean the, I always harp on the macro part, so, um, I, of course being the only social worker there, I am the one doing the case management and the referrals and all of that along with the intern.
Sam Burgett: My, we have another intern as well, and they help so much. Um, Yeah, but I, of course, my priority is always that getting the person connected with what they need. But when I came in, when I was hired, I was spending so much time feeling like I was just spinning my wheels because I couldn't, you know, you can, you might call an agency five times before you get somebody to even make that referral.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Sam Burgett: Um, so my big thing has been how do we strengthen our systems as a community so then we're doing more effective and more efficient referrals? So like Lisa mentioned, uh, almost a year ago now, I started a Community Partners network through valpo Police. Uh, [00:19:00] so fourth Friday of every month at 9:00 AM. At this point, we've had, we have between 80 and 90 agencies involved.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Sam Burgett: So on any given meeting we have about, 40 ish agencies that show up. So we are, we've built out our internal resource guide so that we as a community know what we have, but then we always wanna work ourselves out of a job, right? And so we try to think about how can we make these resources and the info more accessible to the community.
Sam Burgett: So we're taking the guide that we have created by service providers, for service providers. Putting that online. So then, and then ideally we're trying to get that put on kiosk around town so that somebody walking down the street can say, I need a food bank. You know, pop it up and get an updated list.
Sam Burgett: Rather than, now I have to figure out how do I call the police department? How do I, who do I ask for? So..
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Some people don't wanna call.
Sam Burgett: Right, right.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: They wanna look it up on the phone.
Lisa Scheller: But they're gonna look it up and they're gonna see all those great agencies and what they do and has a note in there and who the contact person is.
Lisa Scheller: And you call right there because you know, when Jeanne Ann and I worked for, uh, Dune Brook Child Abuse, you know, we [00:20:00] couldn't... child abuse prevention intervention, we didn't have all the answers. We had our programs, but some people would call. I need help with this. Or who's a great therapist and stuff like that.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And we'd be happy to refer them.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah. Because that's what they think of. That's how their mind registers.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Sure.
Lisa Scheller: Like, I'm gonna call them because they will help.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right.
Lisa Scheller: And tip... just ease, you know, give people a sense of, um, ease that it's okay. You know?
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Right. And just to begin talking to someone.
Lisa Scheller: Yes.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: About it.
Lisa Scheller: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Yeah. It is just a beginning.
Sam Burgett: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: So I just wanna thank you honestly..
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: For what you do. Brianna and Sam, uh, we will be rooting for you. Gosh.
Lisa Scheller: Mm-hmm.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And Lisa, thank you Of course, for all the insight.
Lisa Scheller: And you Jeanne Ann, thank you.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Thank you. Thank you. Uh, so if you're out there, and of course, Cassie. Behind the scenes, Cassie, always keeping us straight on technology.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: Thank you so much. But we, you know, especially, again, this isn't until next week, but today is Valentine's Day and, uh, I listened to a sermon this weekend at church and it, it talked about love and it [00:21:00] really love is really the answer, the foundational answer to it all. And what you're doing is so loving.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And, uh, caring. Um, so our wish for all of you out there is that you love yourself enough and be kind enough to yourself to, to have the courage to reach out, to begin to reach out. And certainly Sam and Brianna at the Valpo Police Department, if you can't remember their names, just for ask for the social work, uh, department.
Jeanne Ann Cannon: And, uh, oh, of course, Lisa Scheller and myself are always available, so, um, we can, if we can't help you, we can certainly steer you in the right direction. So our wish is that, uh, be very kind to yourself and get the help you or a loved one needs, and we wish you all the best. Thank you.
Lisa Scheller: Have a great week.
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